PIC-KIT3 "failed to get device id"

[jnilo]

Hi all
I recently acquired a PIC-KIT3 and I am fighting to program a JAL "flash a led" program on a PIC16F690 . I constantly get a "Failed to get device id" message.
The PIC is on a breadboard and connected to ICSP connector. No power (I am trying to use the programmer power supply). So I have a minimal install. I have two questions:
1/ The PIC-KIT3 manual says page 12 (FAQ) that PIC-KIT3 ICSP connector layout differ from ICSP connector of the original PIC-KIT3. When I looked at http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/DS-51792B.pdf I cannot see the difference. Am I wrong ? WHat are the difference if any ?
2/ The PIC-KIT3 is connected to my laptop USB port. Is that enough to program the chip with no power on the breadboard or do I need to plug an external power supply on the programmer ?
Thanks for your help and any suggestion to solve my (very) frustating problem
Jacques

[Lurch]

What software/program are you using to program the chip?  Nost programs, like MPLAB, have a setup switch which allows you to determine whether or not the Pickit can use it's internal power to program with.  If it's off, then the Pickit will not supply power to the chip.
So, the easiest possibility to check that is to supply external power.

[jnilo]

Latest MPLAB X IDE on a 64bit Win7 laptop. Ans I did activate the switch that says to use internal power of the programmer.

[Lurch]

pin 1 of the 690 goes to Pickit Vdd?
pin 20 of 690 goes to Pickit ground?
690 MCLR pin tied to Vdd with >5K resistor?
Not much else I can think of.

[jnilo]

Yes the connections are OK I think. No resistor between MCLR and VDD since there is only the chip on the breadboard and no circuit. Here is the picture of my board:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/119317976@N06/

[Lurch]

you still need the resistor. MCLR should never 'float'

[jnilo]

When I put a 10K resistor between MCLR and VDD I get:
"Target device was not found. You must connect to a target device to use Pickit 3"
Power target Circuit from Tool is activated
If I remove it I get:
"Failed to get device ID"

[Stanimir5F]

jnilo check this thread: https://www.olimex.com/forum/index.php?topic=2118.0
I'm not sure that it will solve your problem but still it may be useful for you.

[jnilo]

Sorry for the late feedback but I was out of town for quite a while...

Stanirmir5F: your thread saved me ! Here is the key sentence I found in it:
"The connectors on my PIC-KIT3's cable have a little "1" embossed on the plastic but that's NOT the ICSP/ICD connector's pin 1."

That is exactly what happened to me: finding a 1 on the connector of my PIC-KIT3 I was too naive to believe it was PIN 1 of the ICSP connector  . Olimex: you should really signal PROPERLY the PIN 1 as it is done on Microchip Pickit 3 ! 

Now that was not enough to solve my problem. The PIC-KIT3 was still unable to program my chip on the breadboard using power from pic-kit3 provided through the USB port. I tried without success from one Del Inspiron 1545 laptop and a Dell Dimension 9200 tower...

But with external power provided to the chip on the breadboard that did it: the chip was recognized  and I was finally able to "flash-a-led" my PIC16F690 chip

Also no MCLR resistor was needed to obtain this result. Just the chip on the breadboard as shown in the picture above + EXTERNAL power provided to the chip.

Hope that will help another newbie